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	<title>Comments on: Border Agents Plan Use of Agent Orange-like Herbicide on Rio Grande</title>
	<atom:link href="http://veteranveritas.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=28" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28</link>
	<description>Hang out for combat veterans and families.</description>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[marc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello! Your post (Border Agents Plan Use of Agent Orange-like Herbicide on Rio Grande - Veteran Veritas) does so well that I would like to translate it into French, publish on my french blog and link to you. You have something against it? Regards]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello! Your post (Border Agents Plan Use of Agent Orange-like Herbicide on Rio Grande &#8211; Veteran Veritas) does so well that I would like to translate it into French, publish on my french blog and link to you. You have something against it? Regards</p>
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		<title>By: winnieo</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[winnieo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Habitat for both humans and animals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Habitat for both humans and animals.</p>
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		<title>By: vet66</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vet66]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Winnieo;

Since there is no vegetation along the banks of the river that provides any useful purpose other than concealment for drug runners and illegals, your arguments are specious. Where I come from, a bank without vegetation is called a beach.  If the defoliant saves one of our Border Patrol officers from getting injured or killed, the moral imperative of the defoliant/herbicide is attained.

California and Massachusetts are discovering the predictable result of encouraging so-called sanctuary cities to welcome illegals into the social programs.  On the one hand you have weeds along the river. On the other hand you have bankrupt cities that can&#039;t afford to take care of their legal citizens much less the illegals.

By the way,  &quot;Orange&quot;  was sprayed about three gallons per acre which is the equivalent of .009 of an ounce per square foot. Sprayed from C-130&#039;s  less than 6% ever reached the ground. As I recall, after spraying, ground troops typically didn&#039;t enter the sprayed area for another month.  Dioxin degrades in sunlight  after 48 to 72 hours. 

Quibbling about which weeds are good and which weeds are bad distracts from the point of the project which is to deny concealment to those entering the country illegally. What is your real reason/motive to question the use of chemicals to clear undergrowth and weeds where growth is undesirable for any reason?  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Winnieo;</p>
<p>Since there is no vegetation along the banks of the river that provides any useful purpose other than concealment for drug runners and illegals, your arguments are specious. Where I come from, a bank without vegetation is called a beach.  If the defoliant saves one of our Border Patrol officers from getting injured or killed, the moral imperative of the defoliant/herbicide is attained.</p>
<p>California and Massachusetts are discovering the predictable result of encouraging so-called sanctuary cities to welcome illegals into the social programs.  On the one hand you have weeds along the river. On the other hand you have bankrupt cities that can&#8217;t afford to take care of their legal citizens much less the illegals.</p>
<p>By the way,  &#8220;Orange&#8221;  was sprayed about three gallons per acre which is the equivalent of .009 of an ounce per square foot. Sprayed from C-130&#8217;s  less than 6% ever reached the ground. As I recall, after spraying, ground troops typically didn&#8217;t enter the sprayed area for another month.  Dioxin degrades in sunlight  after 48 to 72 hours. </p>
<p>Quibbling about which weeds are good and which weeds are bad distracts from the point of the project which is to deny concealment to those entering the country illegally. What is your real reason/motive to question the use of chemicals to clear undergrowth and weeds where growth is undesirable for any reason?  </p>
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		<title>By: winnieo</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[winnieo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, Vet66, they do not accomplish the same goal. The herbicide in question for the Rio Grande is a defoliant. That means it kills EVERYTHING.  Weed killers are generally used for specific plants, and even ROUNDUP warns of its hazard to both plant and animal life.
Agent Orange is a defoliant, and this new product Imazapyr is a defoliant -  but I&#039;m sure it&#039;s just as safe to use as Agent Orange was in Vietnam.
I&#039;m glad you feel safe washing your fruits and vegetables. I am sure any chemicals used are only on the outside.  Surely that stuff doesn&#039;t get INSIDE the plants.
As for organic farming, it is proving to be less expensive than the chemical route.  In Tucson, imported organic costs more because of transportation costs.  In northern California, organic costs less - lower transport costs.
As you said, &quot;Just because the government&quot; [the Border Patrol in this case]  &quot;comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn&#039;t mean it doesn&#039;t come with substantial strings attached.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Vet66, they do not accomplish the same goal. The herbicide in question for the Rio Grande is a defoliant. That means it kills EVERYTHING.  Weed killers are generally used for specific plants, and even ROUNDUP warns of its hazard to both plant and animal life.<br />
Agent Orange is a defoliant, and this new product Imazapyr is a defoliant &#8211;  but I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s just as safe to use as Agent Orange was in Vietnam.<br />
I&#8217;m glad you feel safe washing your fruits and vegetables. I am sure any chemicals used are only on the outside.  Surely that stuff doesn&#8217;t get INSIDE the plants.<br />
As for organic farming, it is proving to be less expensive than the chemical route.  In Tucson, imported organic costs more because of transportation costs.  In northern California, organic costs less &#8211; lower transport costs.<br />
As you said, &#8220;Just because the government&#8221; [the Border Patrol in this case]  &#8220;comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn&#8217;t mean it doesn&#8217;t come with substantial strings attached.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Brewer</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Brewer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So Vet66 your syllogisms sort of fall off near the end.  The comments about research are spot on, but then you move on to talk radio like dialogue to impart political zingers. Are you suggesting that the combat veteran who has an illness directly linked to Agent Orange is simply looking for an entitlement? That is a bit mean spirited.  As a Service Officer who assists  many veterans with the Claim process, I have yet to see one veteran who is in the entitlement racket. If they are, they are weeded out immediately.
Did you know, that 7 years ago the DOD acknowledged in a Memo,that we dropped three times more Dioxin in Operation Ranch Hand than was reported?
Are you a combat veteran?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Vet66 your syllogisms sort of fall off near the end.  The comments about research are spot on, but then you move on to talk radio like dialogue to impart political zingers. Are you suggesting that the combat veteran who has an illness directly linked to Agent Orange is simply looking for an entitlement? That is a bit mean spirited.  As a Service Officer who assists  many veterans with the Claim process, I have yet to see one veteran who is in the entitlement racket. If they are, they are weeded out immediately.<br />
Did you know, that 7 years ago the DOD acknowledged in a Memo,that we dropped three times more Dioxin in Operation Ranch Hand than was reported?<br />
Are you a combat veteran?</p>
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		<title>By: vet66</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vet66]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[winnieo; explain to me the fundmental difference between herbicides and weed killers. Except for the chemical makeup of each they accomplish the same goal. Ortho still makes weedkillers which sounds much better than herbicide, does it not? ROUNDUP is still around by Scotts if I am not mistaken. The latest fad is to certify crops as organic which presumably means the consumer is charged more for a product free of above ground and herbicide/weedkillers below ground. 

I prefer to wash the trace amounts of fertilizer/herbicide/pesticide off my produce before cooking and/or eating it.  The choice is yours. I spent many a summer working on my uncle&#039;s dairy farm drinking unpasteurized milk from the tank. Your fears are overblown.

Before we rake our farming and cattle industry over the coals I suggest that more cancers are caused by obesity, drinking alcohol, super-sized and Big Gulp drinks from 7/11,  too much sugar consumption, fat intake, smoking, and  lack of exercise. Let&#039;s keep things in perspective, shall we? I find it precious that people are being coerced into forsaking high fructose corn syrup for cane/beet sugar. Substituting cane sugar for HFCS  in a 64oz big gulp will not extend your life. Fascinating that government is using the same arguments to get us back on cane sugar as they used to get us off it and onto HFCS in years past.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>winnieo; explain to me the fundmental difference between herbicides and weed killers. Except for the chemical makeup of each they accomplish the same goal. Ortho still makes weedkillers which sounds much better than herbicide, does it not? ROUNDUP is still around by Scotts if I am not mistaken. The latest fad is to certify crops as organic which presumably means the consumer is charged more for a product free of above ground and herbicide/weedkillers below ground. </p>
<p>I prefer to wash the trace amounts of fertilizer/herbicide/pesticide off my produce before cooking and/or eating it.  The choice is yours. I spent many a summer working on my uncle&#8217;s dairy farm drinking unpasteurized milk from the tank. Your fears are overblown.</p>
<p>Before we rake our farming and cattle industry over the coals I suggest that more cancers are caused by obesity, drinking alcohol, super-sized and Big Gulp drinks from 7/11,  too much sugar consumption, fat intake, smoking, and  lack of exercise. Let&#8217;s keep things in perspective, shall we? I find it precious that people are being coerced into forsaking high fructose corn syrup for cane/beet sugar. Substituting cane sugar for HFCS  in a 64oz big gulp will not extend your life. Fascinating that government is using the same arguments to get us back on cane sugar as they used to get us off it and onto HFCS in years past.</p>
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		<title>By: vet66</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vet66]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You miss the point. It depends on who is doing the research, who is financing that research, what political pressure is being applied for the desired results, who is being cast as a victim, and last, but not least, who is being courted,Veterans, as the latest victim in need of governmental assistance - read vote buying. Just because the government comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn&#039;t mean it doesn&#039;t come with substantial strings attached. It wasn&#039;t too many years ago that VA hospitals were detrimental to the health of those who worked and healed there. 

As a Veteran, I am acutely aware that initially the VA denied that there was a connection between Agent Orange and increased cancer risk among &quot;ranch hands&quot; personnel. In any case, the use of Agent Orange was to deny cover to VC/NVA/ChiCom insurgents. There were plenty of  other HazMat materials that worried me more than dioxin.

One other thing, consider that policy and practicality are synonymous with entitlement and expediency particularly when used by Washington politicians. John Kerry is the poster boy for that sort of dialogue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You miss the point. It depends on who is doing the research, who is financing that research, what political pressure is being applied for the desired results, who is being cast as a victim, and last, but not least, who is being courted,Veterans, as the latest victim in need of governmental assistance &#8211; read vote buying. Just because the government comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn&#8217;t mean it doesn&#8217;t come with substantial strings attached. It wasn&#8217;t too many years ago that VA hospitals were detrimental to the health of those who worked and healed there. </p>
<p>As a Veteran, I am acutely aware that initially the VA denied that there was a connection between Agent Orange and increased cancer risk among &#8220;ranch hands&#8221; personnel. In any case, the use of Agent Orange was to deny cover to VC/NVA/ChiCom insurgents. There were plenty of  other HazMat materials that worried me more than dioxin.</p>
<p>One other thing, consider that policy and practicality are synonymous with entitlement and expediency particularly when used by Washington politicians. John Kerry is the poster boy for that sort of dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: mike brewer</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mike brewer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Vet 66. Epidemeology is a very focused branch of research. Can you site the &#039;Scientific studies that you reference? Cancer is but &lt;em&gt;one &lt;/em&gt;aspect of exposure to Dioxin. Thousands of men lost their lives with a myriad of other illnesses that were in fact directly linked to Agent Orange by the National Institutes of Health, maybe 20 years ago; eg, multiple myeloma, spina bifida, type 2 diabetes, etc.  I would not use the word hysteria around those families. I would direct you to the Veterans Administration web site at &lt;strong&gt;VA.gov&lt;/strong&gt; for more enlightenment on this subject.  The leap to the topic of global warming lost me.   Lots of posturing and positioning here that supplants policy and practicality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vet 66. Epidemeology is a very focused branch of research. Can you site the &#8216;Scientific studies that you reference? Cancer is but <em>one </em>aspect of exposure to Dioxin. Thousands of men lost their lives with a myriad of other illnesses that were in fact directly linked to Agent Orange by the National Institutes of Health, maybe 20 years ago; eg, multiple myeloma, spina bifida, type 2 diabetes, etc.  I would not use the word hysteria around those families. I would direct you to the Veterans Administration web site at <strong>VA.gov</strong> for more enlightenment on this subject.  The leap to the topic of global warming lost me.   Lots of posturing and positioning here that supplants policy and practicality.</p>
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		<title>By: radmax</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[radmax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chemicals should always be used as a last resort. As a quail hunter, I know the difficulties of hunting in a thicket. Accordingly, I do not chop down all the mesquites, just alter my methods. This sounds like some desk jockey making policy, or the BP is getting alot lazier than they should be. Infrared not effective in the trees? Motion sensors are, as are trip wires with claymores...had ya goin&#039; didn&#039;t I....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chemicals should always be used as a last resort. As a quail hunter, I know the difficulties of hunting in a thicket. Accordingly, I do not chop down all the mesquites, just alter my methods. This sounds like some desk jockey making policy, or the BP is getting alot lazier than they should be. Infrared not effective in the trees? Motion sensors are, as are trip wires with claymores&#8230;had ya goin&#8217; didn&#8217;t I&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: winnieo</title>
		<link>http://veteranveritas.com/?p=28#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[winnieo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tucsoncitizen.com/veteranveritas/2009/07/12/border-agents-plan-use-of-agent-orange-like-herbicide-on-rio-grande/#comment-103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s cooler at Mt. Lemmon because of the altitude.
Are you unaware, Vet66, of the difference between weed killers or pre-emergents, and HERBICIDES? H-E-R-B-I-C-I-D-E-S.
 
WO]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s cooler at Mt. Lemmon because of the altitude.<br />
Are you unaware, Vet66, of the difference between weed killers or pre-emergents, and HERBICIDES? H-E-R-B-I-C-I-D-E-S.<br />
 <br />
WO</p>
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