Health, Veteran Pals, Veterans Global, Veterans' Spouses, Partners & Families

Vietnam Veterans Fast A Dying Breed

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These are indeed some very sobering statistics. As a combat veteran of Marine Corps having served in Vietnam, I have always known that we seem to have a mortality clock that ticks a bit faster than then that of the standard for insurance actuaries. Might any of our readers speculate about why this may be? I have a few observations, but I will let you all go first.

This isn’t good news for us “in country vets”…. Like I always said ….we died in ‘Nam , just haven’t fallen over yet….Too bad all the imposters don’t die just as quick or quicker.

*********

In case you haven’t been paying attention these past few decades after you
returned from Vietnam , the clock has been ticking. The following are some
statistics that are at once depressing yet in a larger sense should give you a HUGE SENSE OF PRIDE.

“Of the 2,709,918 Americans who served in Vietnam, less than 850,000 are estimated to be alive today, with the youngest American Vietnam veteran’s
age approximated to be 54 years old.”

If you’re alive and reading this, how does it feel to be among the last
1/3rd of all the U.S. Vets who served in VietNam ?!?!? …don’t know about
you guys, but kinda gives me the chills, considering this is the kind of
information I’m used to reading about WWII and Korean War vets…

So the last 14 years we are dying too fast, only the few will survive by
2015…if any.. If true, 390 VN vets die a day so in 2,190 days from today,
lucky to be a Vietnam veteran alive….. in only 6 years..

These statistics were taken from a variety of sources to include: The VFW
Magazine, the Public Information Office, and the HQ CP Forward Observer –
1st Recon April 12, 1997.

INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS. THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE “been there”:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,
1995 (census figures).

During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to
have served in-country was: 9,492,958.

As of the last Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S.
Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe,
losing nearly 711,000 between ’95 and ’00. That’s 390 per day.

During this Census count, a huge number of Americans falsely claimed to have
served in-country .  (fact check note by Mike Brewer. I do not concur with this figure. The only qualifier may be that there is a misunderstanding about what “In Country” means.  There are tons of  “Era Vets” who are categorized  as Vietnam Veterans, which is sort of true, but they are Vietnam ERA Vets, and never left the United States. There census number is quite high, but I do not think it is this high.)

82 thoughts on “Vietnam Veterans Fast A Dying Breed”

  1. Astonishing! Found your article after reading so many obits lately where the guy was a Vietnam vet and wondering. My husband is former Marine (in Vietnam 1966-67) and diagnosed with Parkinson’s, diabetes, etc. After reading your article, we’re lucky to have him.

    1. I work with veterans all the time and thought you might find it interesting (if you didn’t know already) that any Vietman Vet who served in country and who develops Parkinson’s Disease, Lou Gehrig’s disease, or a number of other illnesses is assumed to have been exposed to Agent Orange and AUTOMATICALLY qualfies for Service Connected Disability.  Food for thought.  Check with your local VA claims agent. 

  2. I too am a Marine  Vietnam Veteran; (7th Marines 67-69), with multiple diagnoses. I am rated 100% disabled and damn happy to be privileged and capable of pushing out this small Blog.  Thanks to our Editor, Mark Evans, I have some “raison de etre.”
    There does seem to be some amorphous time clock inside the Vietnam Veteran. Wished I knew who implanted it. But for the time being, we will just all hang together here and beat the odds. Semper Fi to your hubby. Mike

  3. The figures reported here (and the same text is widely seen) are all correct with one major exception.  The official VA figures for surviving vets of the Viet Nam era show 81% to still be around; the percentage for those who served in Viet Nam is slightly lower, due first to the fact that 58,000 died there.  There is no way that 69% of those who served are now dead, as is easily noted by the unit reunions that occur and the personal circle of other vets than many vets have.  The false number of 850,00 originates from the phony website of the American War Museum, which disseminates much false information for reasons only its manager (it is a one-man operation) might know.

    1. Thanks for the clarification.  The past 5 years has seen a ton of so called veteran statistics that are clearly confabulated. I too have found the Veterans War Museum to be a bit odd at times.
      There is always the notable distinction between “Era Vets” and “Combat Veterans.”  The latter group does in fact have an uncommonly high mortality rate, that includes approximately 115, ooo suicides between 1969 and 1989.  The Obituaries in the Veteran Magazine published by Vietnam Veterans of America, a highly credible  organization, have a long list of birthdays between 1946-50. So it is not so much the numbers as the age at which Vietnam Veterans pass on to glory. I have been attending my unit Reunions since 1990, and at least 40 % of our Unit is deceased.

      1. MarDivPhoto on Oct 9, 2009 refers to the American War Museum website, and mike_brewer on Oct 12, 2009 refers to the Vietnam War Museum, both as the source of the number 850,000 living Vietnam veterans.  I am unable to find the museum websites referred to, though I find a National War Museum and a Veterans Memorial Museum.  Where is the museum and website referred to as the source of the figure 800,000 living Vietnam veterans?  Thank you.

    2. OK I also am wary of statistics thrown out on the web, being a former Marine and a Viet Nam Vet I looked up the numbers from one of the sources indicated.. found that the Naval Health Institute who crunches no. just to crunch no. have similar data. Look up the webstite. I believe they may be using no. from actual combat vets but don’t know that for a fact in any case that does seem rather high. I would like to see how much that differs from the civilian population and are they no. that were projected in 2000 to 2010?
      Anyone can use no. to indicate what they want but I do have to believe that these may be close 800k approx left, sort of sobering uh.

    1. A fellow soldier in the 134th assault helicopter company with me shot and killed himself just down the hall from where I slept while I was sleeping. I heard a pop and at that time guys used to mess with pin flairs so when I was awaken by a popping sound I thought it was a pin flair going off. I found out later after I got up that it was someone down the hall from me that shot himself. Did not know his name but I couldn’t bring myself to walk by his A/O after this happened. He lived for three days after that incident.

  6. This is a question as I have not been able to find the source of  13M+ falsely claiming to be RVN vets.  where did this nunber come from, the  people I am dealing with look closely at source material and I would really like to use this.  Thank You. SFC (Ret.) M c Clurg, Ernest H.

    1. Some of it came from a VFW Post. In my mind they were throwing out a SWAG. Scientific Wild Ass Guess. And I believe the qualifier thereis that many were claiming to be combatvets when in reality the ratio of logistics to grunts was about 9:1 therefore the large number suggested was true Vietnam Veterans, just not combat vets.

  7. What is a combat vet?  A  lot of guys found themselves in the sh-t and were not grunts.  I remember tet that was no picnic for rear echelon, and being in a chopper,those m60″s weren’t there for show.  I came home in 69, my hair fell our,got big pustuals on my back, and skin problems immediately.  I have had cancer in the crease of my neck were a knot on a kerchief rubbed, and sores in my scalp were the canvas of the helmet sat on my head.  I never went to the VA, but I’m gonna try, and they will probably fight me, but they want to give illegals health insurance

  8. A friend of mine who is an in-country veteran asked me to look into the topic of how many Vietnam veterans are still alive. Well, one thing to remember is that not all Vietnam veterans were born in 1945 or later. Some pilots, career men and members of elite units may have been much older. Likely 15 to 20 percent of the total who served after the buildup in 1965 were born before the end of World War II. Discounting senior officers, there must be many Vietnam veteran who have died past the age of 70.
    Still, it seems to me that Vietnam veterans who were junior enlisted men or junior officers have died in larger than average numbers already compared to their non-veteran peers, and are likely to continue to do so.
    Two of my long-time friends are in-country veterans. Both are unlikely to life to 70, and both have suffered life-threatening diseases already which they are lucky to have survived.

  9. Hey Mike: We Cold War vets that were stationed in-country, posted in Heilbronn Germany in the 1950’s that were proudly serving as part of the Alpiners of the 502nd ASA Group, gathering intel from those godless, heathen East Germans and Soviets, had their share of hardships too.
    Like our Vietnam Brothers, who followed a decade after us, there is a bond that can never be broken between us.
    Although the war was considered ‘cold,’ that didn’t stop those crazy DDR Volkspolizei Border Guards from taking more than a few potshots at us when we ventured too close to their border fence to retreve one of our over-flight drones.
    There’s one, just like the ones that we used, painted red, hanging from the ceiling at the Pima Air Museum. Ach, the memories.
    Yer pal, Ferraeri Bubba

  10. Dear Friends abd fellow vets,
       My name is Jason Gunn and I am a veteran of OIF with the First Armor Div. I have been searching a long time for information on people who could help me find and interview pilots of either the Navy or Air Force who took part in Operation Rolling thiunder or Operation LineBacker 1and2. Ant help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. You can reach me at JasonGunn20@yahoo.com.

  11. Hi Mike. Nice Web. I am ex medic one-oh-worst airborne div. 65-66 and Fed-67. I was wondering about these statistics.  Just finished writing a book about an incident in Vietnam that tells a story about how twisted and asymmetric that war was.  It’s called “Mekong  Protocol”. Hope to have it out this year if I get the bucks together.  The odd thing, I was at Tripler Hospital today and learned something interesting. The Iraqui and Afghan war vets are getting PTSD Tx. and counseling even before they get out of the service and checks nearly immediately upon discharge in the event of a disability.  I’ve been trying for 17 years now.   I welcomed 2 Marines back home and they returned the gesture.  Nice of them.  I do not know or care, where  your stats came from.  I do know this.  I had 6 close buddies in Vietnam.  1 killed in the Nam, 2 dead by their own hand. 1 just disappeared, and then there’s me.  Here’s the rub.  Except for one, we were all medics.
     

  12. Mike:  Thanks for the unexpected note.  The veterans outreach counseling is good for PTSD Tx, etc. But for claims, I have found the DAV (I have to join) to be a real kick ass outfit.  Thank god for them.  I had them look at my VA narrative pointing out stressors and stressor events in the Nam.  Then compare that report to the Tripler Psychologist report of a (get this) 5 minute interview. What a joke. So my main man at the DAV said we’re not going to appeal.  We’re going to demand an official review to a hearings officer. I get to testify and present them with the story of a 20 y/o medic carrying dead and wounded around for 14 months in country.  Think I might be carrying some baggage?  At your next response,  should you be so kind, I will tell you of a career U.S. Navy hero who died alone, broke, unsung in a Trailer park in Oregon.  He gets cremated and tossed into the ocean with no fanfare.  Patsy T. Mink, (U.S. House of Rep-Hawaii) get honored with a burial in Punchbowl. I went fucking ballistic.  please pardon the French.  My girl friend thought I lost it. She was right. We were driving home from the airport when I heard the news. I took her to Punchbowl  and then she understood.

  13. Mike. One last ramble.  Punchbowl National Cemetery of the Pacific is called. “Pu’ u O’waina” in Hawaiian.  It means “Hill of Sacrifice”.
    Aloha
    Pete

    1. Pete, be sure to ask your DAV guy if he thinks you have exhausted the “Reconsideration” process. That often precedes an Appeal. Be careful of Appeals. They may look “appealing” but can actually take up to 5 years to schedule a hearing.
      No one can do a C & P exam in that short of time. You should document that to the Patient Advocate Office.  Hope that helps.

  14. Mike.  I am asking for a Decision Review Officer Hearing.  It may precede a  counter-appeal.  I’m going to put that review officer in my shoes as a 20 y/o medic. Then ask, Do you think I might have been affected by this ambiguity between grounded reality in the tri canopy jungle and political reality at home which was counter to the troops welcome return (sarcasm). Do you think there should’nt be any baggage there?  I may be crazy but I’m not stupid.  I may have some choice words to express as well.  No more mr. Nice Guy. (LOL)
    ps
    Thanks for all your help for the vets.  Semper Fi.
     

  15. Mike – why is god’s name would all these people claim to have went to that septic tank they call vietnam? i think anyone that went to vietnam should go to a va hospital & get checked out. i just found out that they will not cover navy personal that didn’t go ashore & do have agent orange in there blood . i was in a compound & seen them spraying – and the next day everywhere they sprayed was brown. what does that tell u? that stuff got into everything -even  breathing it in did a # on everyone – that is how the guy’s in the navy got it. tell everyone that was their to go & get a blood test to check for agent orange – 1st comes diabetes – then prostate cancer – that’s what a dr told me yesterday.
    thanks rich

  16. Hello Mike: 

    Working on a story for my veterans paper at my website and found your blog on this subject.  I am a Nam Vet with Ischemic Heart Disease (ISD), an illness finally acknowledged that was caused by AO in Oct 2009 by VA Secretary Shineski.  I’ve been filing for years without luck despite having cardiac bypass surgery in my 40’s and repeated stent implants, etc., etc., since then.  Three weeks ago I suffered by 4th stroke, each attributed to ISD. 

    Reading Shineski’s October news release, which promised a “fast track” response to those who suffered from ISD, I immediately re-filed with VA.  A few days later VA issued a bulletin essentially saying, “Whoa, the approvals would be delayed until sometime in summer 2010 because it had to be published with the Federal government.” 

    I received a memo from the Virginia VA dated March 9, 2010 stating that although VA was required to publish the new regulation by March 12, 2010 (in accordance with the Agent Orange Act of 1991 stipulating timeframes for action), VA would be unable to meet that date.  That in a sense is a violation of Federal law and should be attacked by those with means to do so.

    Then, on March 10, 2010 the Secretary makes a statement detailing a new plan to automate AO filings that will speed up the process.  This was met by skeptisim by most Veterans groups.  Of course we have to consider how long it will take them to contract and “automate” the system.  Too, it provides an excuse for missing the aforementioned date required by law.  In any case, we who served our country continue to die on a daily basis in greater and greater numbers.

    When I returned to the U.S. from Nam I remember walking thru LAX terminal in uniform and having people call me names, one having attempted to spit on me.  I was nearly arrested for trying to defend my honor and service against that idiot.  Now I find the same scenario occurring with this AO fiasco. 

    I was in uniform for 26 years and served honorably and faithfully.  I am slowly dying from AO and my country has once again tried to spit on me.  We who served America do not deserve this treatment. 

    Thanks for your attention to this subject.  I hope it will cause your readers to write the Secretary and emphasize their concern about the unfortunate treatment of our Vietnam Veterans.

    To my brothers out there, Welcome Home.

    1. Welcome Home John. Sorry about the delay here in answering. Some of the responses did not come through our site in a timely fashion.
       
      The AO stuff is just so hard to tolerate… as it still invades so many of us.  So few can imagine that we were really sprayed with chemicals and had to live with the year of VA Denial. I feel confident they will take care of you now. They cannot deny your ISD.

  19. i cam back from nam in july of 70 all my decorations and cbi badge and never heard or spit upon, i think a lot of this is bullshit!!! i have been 100% dav.  and not one guy in my group had ever said that they were spit upon!! you guys read to many bullshit books!!!

    1. I came back from nam in January of 70.Got out September remember being called a baby killer,monster etc ,was not spit on ,but had I been would have given back a proper response.When I came back was wearing my medals and CIB etc.
       I went back to work (with Government Defense Contractor)where I worked before entering service and was laid off after 1 month.Went to VA rep who did nothing about it,but then sent me for a job as an exterminator.went off on him and asked was this supposed to be closest civilian related occupation.
      Went looking for a new job,on foot walking many miles every day,but when they foung out that i was a vietnam veteran they would not hire me.Some would ask if I was a Drug addict 0r killed people etc.
       Finally after 10 months found a job,human resources person said that they didnot mind hiring Vietnam Veterans .as long as I was not drug addict or involved in any war attrocities.
       At the same time all my friends whom never served had good jobs and new cars etc

  20. Any anecdotal evidence that has come my way over the years is not from books.  I have met many men who were spat upon. I was spat on  in Chicago in Lincoln Park in 1969. It is not BS. My English teaching assistant at the U of A, in 1971,  called me a “baby killer,” and spat on the ground.
    Sorry you feel that way. Yes some do fabricate stuff…. they have in all wars.

  21. For those who believe that the stories of being spit on and being called baby killers and other injustices is crap than you are living in a dream world. Names were called, Vets were spit on, along with not being respected by our own did happen. Some may have escaped the digs and harsh words and that is good but make no mistake those things did happen. Yes the war was not popular but we did go and do our duties we were trained to do. Not everyone boosts about how there home comming was and there are those who would like to leave that chapter behind them.

  22. Looking for people who served in the 134th assault helicopter co. from 1971 to 1972. I was a aircraft sheetmetal repairman. I was transfered to the 201st aviation co. in Nha Trang in 1972 to finnish my tour . My room mate was nick named Budda in the 134th. Lost a friend after a going away party when he took one last flight the day after the party. The aircraft ( helicopter ) went down experiencing mechanical problems. If this jogs someones memory than please write on this blog so we can perhaps chat sometime. Bill

  23. Was an 11B grunt with the First Air Cav (C1/7) in 71/72.  CIB air medal an dall that.  Very good but alarming article.  Hopefully since most of us are inot our 60’s now we have past the heart attacks and cancers that seem to get you in the 50’s – and maybe the rate will now slow.

    I guess its a compliment to us all that all these wannabees are prentnding to be vets but I still get pizzed at them when I figure them out after a few beers in a bar or whatever.   I was never spit on and in fact the only real negative stuff I saw when I got back was that lots of folks just didn’t want to hear from us about our experiences.     I sorts blended in until I retired in 2003 and joined the CT First Cav Assoc and finally met groundpounders like muself.  It has been a great experience.  I discovered the VA and local Vet center and was walked through the process to get compensation for PTSD and Diabetes.  I hope you all know that if you were in country and have diabetes you are basically automatically qualified for soem degree of compensation – their is a presumptive connection as there is with various cancers.  Check out the VA web-site and your local Vet Center.

    We read this article at our last meeting – thanks again.

  24. MarDivPhoto on Oct 9, 2009 refers to the American War Museum website, and mike_brewer on Oct 12, 2009 refers to the Vietnam War Museum, both as the source of the number 850,000 living Vietnam veterans.  I am unable to find the museums referred to, though I find a National Vietnam War Museum and a Veterans Memorial Museum.  Where is the museum and website referred to as the source of the figure 850,000 living Vietnam veterans?  Thank you.

  25. Hi Mike,
    I served in Nam 68-69 with Shore Party detached to the 5th Marines in An Hoa. I left the Corps in 1970 and went to work as a Police Officer in a large southern city. I spent nearly thirty years as an officer and still teach them.
    Two things I have to add, one is that many Viet Nam Veterans died in the line of duty as Law Enforcement Officers (odmp.org) and that as a police officer I was not prone to PTSD , I hope more were like me.

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  30. I’m a member of the Vietnam Veterans of  American.  If you read the Taps in their mag  there seems to be an alarming rate of Nam Vets dying in their late fifties and early sixties.  I showed this to a non vet to see if I was not clear (PTSD) and he was shocked at the number of Nam Vets who were passing away. 

    1. Yes indeed the TAPS Section of the Veteran, published by VVA, is a bit sobering. I too am a Life VVA member and Past President. I have been reading the Veteran for 20 years and it has always scared the crap out of me. I am 62, and rated 100% with Agent Orange medical issues. So, we wonder eh? If it is any comfort, one of my VVA pals reminds me that VVA only has a total of about 45,000 members nation wide, so it represents and very small part of all who served. Sleep well brother.

      1. Mike you write well and to get to core issues. I’m a Life member of VVA, DAV and AMVETs; spend almost two years in Vet Nam as Medic with 145th Avn Btn AND 11th ARVN Airborne Brigade. I have followed out governments proclivity to repeat errors endlessly. If not mustard gas, then agent orange, the ‘the Gulf syndrome’. Poison, who cares? And yet our government which is one of the best in the world scares the crap out of me. Age 67.

        2. By way of the SHADS project, we are still handling claims of radiation exposure in WWll and those who went to ABC school in the Navy; Atomic, Biological, Chemical Warfare training on ships in the early 1960’s.  I know a man who is 86 years old,from Nogales, and was at ground zero at Hiroshima in a grave identification unit, who just filed a claim last year. Another who is 85,from Colorado and was on the USS Rhona in Tunisia in the early stages of WWll who filed his claim at age 80 for PTSD. The USS Rhona was blown up with a German missile. But no one spoke of the incident, nor was the media permitted to cover it as WE did not have missiles yet and did not want to alarm the public. His name is Ray Alvarado and you can Google his name or USS Rhona and read a wild story.

  32. I am an in country vet and 59 years old, your article was very informative. I knew we were losing our numbers fast but not nearly as fast as we are, thank you for the education. and welcome home to all my brothers. I always say welcome home to a vietnam vet. To me, It means today is a fresh start and we have one more chance at having a normal life. They all understand. God bless you guys for your sacrifice.

  33. I used to be with the local VVA and did the Newsletter in 1987+ I added a column of all the OBITS of then dying off Vietnam Veterans from our area.  It got too overwhelming for me, there were so MANY.
     
    Today the list still grows in our local newspaper,
    if you check the http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com and search the “Obits” section, you can see two of the most recent:
    Last name:
    Vallo
    Last name:
    Brault
     
    I don’t have any but ONE Viet Vet friend still alive, he and I served in Marines 1st marine Airwing,  1967 at Da Nang Air Base and left the day befor TET offensive started Jan 1, 1968. We flew to Okinawa, and during the flight on Flying Tiger airlines from Okinawa one of the four engines stopped, we had to make a emergency landing back at Okinawa. Needless to say neither of us flew again after that, he is 100% PTSD .
    All my Vet friends died from suicide, cancer, heart attack (drinking themselves to death).
    Stay alive & sane… thanks to Valium I am still alive… for now… NOT from the V.A., I use my own Doctor.

      1. Mike,
        NO I was stationed on Hill 55 for 6 months, and stationed at Da Nang Air Base (Rocket City as you know) with 1st L.A.A.M. Btln.  My buddy Jim was stationed with MAG-11.  He and I just emailed each other on Jan. 2, 2011. We returned back to NY on Jan. 2, 1968.  He and I flew out of Da Nang on the morning of Jan 1, 1968 (that night Da Nang A.B. got rocketed big time because it was the start of the TET offensive. ) Jim and I flew from Da Nang, to Kadena Okinawa, and then after an attempt to fly out of Kadena in a “Flying Tiger Line” plane one of the 4 engines quit in mid-air, and we made an emergency landing back at Kadena, we stayed overnight and flew out in the same – repaired – airplane on to Travis A.F. Base, then to NY.  Neither of us has since flown again. Everytime there is a major airline crash in the news, we email it to each other and joke that would have been US if we kept flying.  Jim is 100% PTSD, but stable and happily married with 2 children. I was married for 30 years, then divorced now for 10.
        Be safe and well… “Welcome Home”
         
        DANang
        …………………………………………………

  34. I was a Medic with the 93rd Evac. We took care of the Big Red 1 and the 173rd Sky soliders Long Bein . We had it nice compared to the line Medics. We were in the tents in the mud in 1966 /67 . We built houches in 1967. We saved a lot of people and seen some bad stuff.  I never want to see another hurt person as long as I live. I’m 66 years old, going in to the hospital for the 4th time for more stents. Had to fight the VA for years , Diabetes , neropathony and heart attack 14 years ago. Ischemic heart problems. VA said not related to Agent Orange.

  35. I’m a former member of the 173rd Abn Bde—-First (Army) in VNam from “The Rock”
    So long ago—-time tames the memories and makes them Kind!!!!
    GOD BLESS ALL VETS

    1. I am not sure anyone will ever quantify the exact number of suicides.  As a mental health nurse in the 1970’s who worked the suicide prevention and crisis unit for 4 years, I can tell you there were alot.  So, lets say there were not “more,” just, “alot.” It is still tragic.  Alcohol induced psychosis and death from toxicity is not suicide, or is it?  No way of accounting for the incidence of this from 1972-85. No way of accounting for one car accidents either. Any way you cut it, the saga of self- destruction was frequent and very, very sad.

  39. I am a Marine Vietnam Vet  (6/67-7/68) & a Marine Desert Shield/Storm Vet.  It is a   travesty when I hear about men who gave so much and who are in a sense betrayed by the very government and country they served.  What amazes me however is that so many of my comrades who served in Vietnam and who suffer from many of the maladies associated with this war would serve again. There is a certain courage and loyalty that transends the injustice  rendered to these men and as long as America has men like this it will always be free.  I am 70 and suffer from several health problems with a 10% disability; all I believe attributed to my service in Vietnam or the Gulf War. The obituarities almost every day in our area list someone who served in Vietnam.

  40. What amazes me however is that so many of my comrades who served in Vietnam and who suffer from many of the maladies associated with this war would serve again.
    We’ve used them up – we need young ones.

  41. Mike … I was on the USS America CVA 66 in 1970 and as such am part of the Blue Water Navy that is being shunned by the VA and congress.  Do you have any statistics on how many of the so called BWN vets are coming down with AO related presumptive diseases.
    I have heard to many times of other shipmates getting ischemic heart disease or diabetes … I for one had a heart attack and quadruple bypass surgery… but no boots on the ground.
    I just wonder how many of us boots on decks guys are going to be dying off before the VA and congress realize that we are due for our agent orange exposure also.
    According the them there was a giant wall that stopped all aerial spraying and river flow from the rivers into the Gulf of Tonkin where we got our drinking, cooking and bathing water just like the Aussie sailors in the Gulf … the Aussie government through scientific studies found that drinking the water from the Navy desalination processors actually concentrated the dioxins rather than filter them out.  And before we ate our food they came from the beach and were to be sprayed along with everything else that the VA is making this presumption for having boots on the ground for even one minute.
    Any numbers on this would be greatly appreciated.

  42. There is only ONE KIND OF VIET NAM VET,,ONE WHO WAS THERE.
    THERS IS ONLY ONE KIND OF COMBAT VET..ONE WHO  WAS IN COMBAT. Everything else is pure bullshit..1969-1970 GRUNT  11 bravo  in the jungle..and damn PROUD of it…SCREW ALL THE FAKERS…NO MAN ENOUGH TO BE TRUE

  43. i got sent to viet nam in the spring of 71 and came back in the spring of 72. my mos was 82c20, surveyor. when i arrived at my unit, 2/11th acr, how battery, a scruffy looking latino guy who happened to be back in the rear, convinced me, i needed to volunteer to go out to e-troop, in his stead, (he’d already been out there 6 mo.)to be with the forward observers that were attached to e-troop. we went to the 1st sargent and he said ok. i went out for 7 or 8 mo. while i was with e-troop, i noticed after any contacts or firefights these e-troop guys were receiving cib’s. at the time i wasn’t concerned, though, some of the guys working as fo’s, who were planning on a military career, were trying to get cib’s. the word from the rear was we weren’t authorized cib. i was as directly involved in the fighting as anyone else in e-troop. doe’s not receiving a cib mean i’m not a combat vet? i’ve been asked a few times over the years if i’m a combat vet. i’ve always just repied ‘yes’, and left it at that. am i misrepresenting myself, i’d really like to know.

    1. No it does not mean that you are not a combat veteran. Often, just being in the TAOR, tactical area of responsibility will qualify you for a CIB? Have you tried to apply? Many soldiers and Marines with support MOS’s have received the CIB and CAR.  Do you have the form to apply?

      2. mike: fact is, my factory closed last summer, so i went and applied for some va disabilty, to help until i get fully retired. i just learned, they are going to give me 40% for a couple things. one thing they have mentioned is verified stressors. i had no idea i could apply for a cib, but would like to. i mention the verified stressers, as i wonder if that could help in the decision on a cib. jeff clutter

        1. Call me next week sometime, and I will help you with the stressor stuff. If you have a CIB, you do not need to verify stressors, so call the 1-800-827-1000 and tolerate the voice promptings/menu. Tell them you want to request a CIB.  I am at 760-550-8083  We can work on both at the same time.

  44. Mike: Served in the 5th SFGA 4th ID, and E/20th Inf  from 69-71; went from E1 to E6 all in the 11B series. Commissioned in 1980 as a Behavioral Science Officer and went from 0-1 to 0-6 until I retired in 2005. In response to several comments, I’ve never heard of anyone other than a grunt in Vietnam being eligible for the CIB. As for the CAR, that might be another story.  Even though thousands served with the Infantry units as FO’s, Dog Handlers, EOD etc. and were sometimes in more combat during their tour than the actual grunts they supported – they still weren’t awarded the CIB. Same goes with the SF flash.  Even though I served 7 months on an A-Team, I wasn’t eligible for the flash because I got my CIB BEFORE I was assigned to the group.  In my military career, I personaly wrote CIB support letters for over 20 non-11B soldiers whom I knew had spent more than 180 days in a forward deployed posture and were under combat conditions, 6 receiving purple hearts – none received the CIB.  As for VA disability, if someone was in combat or experienced documented stressors before or after Vietnam, AND, they are assessed in a VA claim related medical exam, AND they can get someone who was in their unit to verify the incidents, they may be successful in their claim for PTSD or injuries received in Nam. I have written letters for soldiers I personally witnessed in combat situations and almost all were evaluated and received long over-due compensation.  As  for suicides, this is mostly a myth seconday to a VA study in the 1970’s that included all Vietnam eta veterans.  This figure far exceeded the expected suicide ratio when balanced by demographics and applied to ONLY those that had served in country. Sen Jim Webb when he was Secretary of the Navy wrote an excellent article how the media, and in some cases the goverment gave birth to the myth that all Nam vets were in some way impaired or Rambos waiting to happen. It’s mostly the exact opposite. We spent more forward deployed time than the WW2 vets, we never lost a major battle, we were greeted with the most abuse and disdain from the country we had served than any previous generation of veteran, and we were the genesis of all war-fighting doctrine today.  Something to be proud of!  This is not to say that we weren’t casualties of other things like Agent Orange and things we probaby don’t even know about, but the fact remains, we are NOT dying off at a disproporttionate rate, we are NOT more suicidal that other generations of combat vets, and we KNOW who the real Vietnam Vets were (those on the ground).  We can only pray that the current generation of young men and women who are the current targets of a cottage-industry of professionals who thrive on making them all impaired will fare better than we did.

  46. De Nomie, William D.  Sgt. E-5  Sent to W. Germany Nov 1966-Sept.67 ,Volunteered for Vietnam  Nov. 1967-Sept 1968  9th Inf. Div. Return to country Jun 1969-Apr 1970 I Field Forces Vietnam.  In my 60s now, retired disabled veteran live on my little firebase with my wife we both married for the first time she was 41 I was 43 share our life with our 11 dogs and 2 cats. After all these past years, I’ve never left country, took me years to live again

  48. im a vietnam vet.i was in the army from 1964 –1967.i went to vietnam in october 1965-1966.i was in charlie , company.2-16,infantry, rangers.we fought in many battles.the biggest was operation abilene,april 11th,1966.we had 80% csaulties.i was awarded the silver star,and purple heart for that battle.i became a detroit poilce officer after i left the army.i retired,and moved to san diego ca,after retirment.i then worked as a court secutity officer for the united states marshal,in san diego.i had a very seroius heart attack,and several strokes.im retired now.im a life member of  the vietnam veterans of america,life member of the D.A.V.   V.F.W.  american legion of purple hearts.   C.I.B.  society.  id like to comment on the stastistics of our vietnam veteran death rate of 390 vets die every day.i think that the death rate of vietnam veterans,are higher than the any other war veterans.i think that our fight wasnt just in vietnam,but after we got home.that took a heavy tole on us.and still is.God bless our verterants,   john j. lang  

  49. i forgot to mention in my above comment,that i was in the first infantry division,(the big red one) ,charlie company,2nd battalion,16th infantry regiment,rangers,in vietnam.    god bless america,and our veterans.

  50. Hello John:
     
    Thanks for your added comment I was in Artillery had my hands on a lot of weapons from the 105, 155, 175mm guns up to the 8inch Howitzer, and all the other weapons in between. Had my good times, as well as bad times, after leaving the US Army,  April 10, 1970 I always look at that date as my second Birthday
    I have never had or felt the same camaradrie I experienced serving two tours
    “In Country”,  that empty feeling was with me for years, until I worked for the Dept. of Veterans Affairs that was the only fullfilling  job I ever had.
    Still have those dreams that creep in and keeps me awake for the rest of the night
    for years, all I asked for was a good nights sleep. Before I married my loving wife, I told her of some of my experiences, but not all of them showed her all the medicine
    I take ware hearing aids and to this day I’m always vigilant when I’m out always
    looking around.
    Still listen to 1960s rock”n”roll and those songs take me back to the Mekong Delta
    or the Central Highlands and operations in between. Look upon myself as a well
    educated man, besides rock”n”roll there is Classical Music, Jazz and other favorites
    have my Library and collection of movies,  my  garage and my dogs and cats. 
    When I first went to Vietnam in Nov. 1967 about 90% of the unit were made up of
    RA’a Regular Army, those that enlisted with some draftees, When I returned in
    Jun. 1969 most of the unit were draftees, with a few old hands returning for a
    second tour.  The men who were drafted served and did their jobs well they were all soldiers.
    I found out later that most of the men who enlisted for 4 years  volunteered for
    Vietnam for two tours. That takes courage to return to war, or maybe they wanted to get out of a statside armpit like I did when reassigned to Fort Lewis, Washington
    sent back to the 4/18 artillery, the same unit I left in Germany. I found out later
    that 6 months after I left everybody rotated back to the states, say reminds me of
    Walker another 4 year RA , he left Germany volunteered for Vietnam, assigned to
    Fort Hood, Texas another armpit and volunteered for a second tour.
    Lost contact with him years ago, wish him the best. We met at the replacement battlalion hearing our names at roll call, couldn’t believe we were meeting again  
    I  found out he was on the plane behind me after roll call sat in the rain and mud
    and told our stories we had a good laugh,  just laughed our asses off went to the
    EM Club after that, I never saw Walker again. In 1970 received a letter from him
    he was back home in Texas he made it.
    With the internet and sites like this, I’m hoping to hear from someone I served with
    but sofar nothing how many are really left?
    While I was in Vietnam I saw men, who did brave and heroic deeds they deserve
    all the best from life. We returned home to an uncertain future with no skills needed in the civilian world, we would make our way the best we could in this
    civilian world and create a new life for ourselves.
    For myself I always felt that the millions of men who were in uniform before me returned to civilian life, I could do the same,  when I went into the army, I was
    18 years old I would learn about civilian life 46 months later.
     
    Somethings I’ll never do:
     
    Sit in a barber’s chair, and let another person cut my hair.
     
    When my wife and I go to a restaurant I always ask for a booth or table by the wall, so I can see whats going on around me. I’m always looking around at whats going on.

    I’ll never ware a baseball cap again ever!
     
    ‘In war, there are no unwounded soldiers”
     
    Best wishes,

    Bill

    1. I just watched a VN movie about the Hanoi Hilton.. I was never a prisner but could relate to some of the tings the men talked about.——I can also relate to the tinngs you talk about,, Any time I’m around a crowd (large or small) I like to be where I can keep up w/everything going on around me…Use to have panic attacks really bad if I had to be in public…With help from VA mental health and medication I’m now a lot better off.. Although I have to plan most everything I do so as to avoid the things that still bother me..—-I started looking up my VN buddies a few years ago,, so far I’ve located 10 men that was in my Company…Talk to them on a regular basis….–Bad part is that out of the 10 men 7 of us have major mental and physical problems…. I’m sure the Agent Orange was the cause of most health issues…. Good luck and take care —-Jim

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