Received from a friend in Indiana. Thanks Eric.
Larry
www.reflectionsofhonor.com
I am certain our readers will have alot to say about these stats. There are tons of variables involved in such a prediction. How many of those vets have been treated for PTSD is a starter. I think that the treated ones have a status quo longevity. What do you think?
I know that our post-war death rate is higher than the norm, but 2/3 sounds high to me. But this is an interesting read, nonetheless.
ELE
Vietnam Vets Take Notice
Nobody wants to play the Grim Reaper here, but statistically based fact, shows that time apparently is in short supply for Nam Vets. Nothing is written in stone; however, on average, these stats are quite convincing, and perhaps discomforting to all who are affected.
On the bright side, in most scenarios, there can always be exceptions to all situations, and a certain percent will survive longer. Just who, and how many, is the unknown value…perhaps it is time to start on that “bucket list” that we never seem to have time for!
Some Important Data and Statistics: Please read on…
In case you haven’t been paying attention these past few decades after you returned from Vietnam , the clock has been ticking. The following are some statistics that are at once depressing yet, in another sense, should give one a sense of pride.
“Of the 2,709,918 Americans who served in Vietnam; less than 850,000 are estimated to be alive today, with the youngest American Vietnam veteran’s age approximated to be 54 years old.”
So, if you’re alive and reading this, how does it feel to be among the last 1/3rd of all the U.S. Vets who served in Vietnam ? Don’t know about you, but kinda gives me the chills, considering this is the kind of information we are used to reading about WWII and Korean War vets.
So the last 14 years we are dying too fast, only a few will survive by 2015…if any.
If true, 390 VN vets die a day, on average. So in 2190 days from today, you’re lucky to be a Vietnam veteran alive….. in only 6 years..
These statistics were taken from a variety of sources to include: The VFW Magazine, the Public Information Office, and the Forward Observer
FOR YOUR INFORMATION,
STATISTICS FOR INDIVIDUALS IN UNIFORM AND IN COUNTRY VIETNAM VETERANS:
* 9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era (August 5, 1964 – May 7, 1975).
* 8,744,000 GIs were on active duty during the war (Aug 5, 1964-March 28,1973).
* 2,709,918 Americans served in Vietnam , this number represents 9.7% of their generation.
* 3,403,100 (Including 514,300 offshore) personnel served in the broader Southeast Asia Theater ( Vietnam , Laos , Cambodia , flight crews based in Thailand , and sailors in adjacent South China Sea waters).
* 2,594,000 personnel served within the borders of South Vietnam (Jan. 1,1965 – March 28, 1973). Another 50,000 men served in Vietnam between 1960 and 1964.
* Of the 2.6 million, between 1-1.6 million (40-60%) either fought in combat, provided close support or were at least fairly regularly exposed to enemy attack.
* 7,484 women (6,250 or 83.5% were nurses) served in Vietnam .
* Peak troop strength in Vietnam : 543,482 (April 30, 1968).
CASUALTIES:
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
Hostile deaths: 47,378
Non-hostile deaths: 10,800
Total: 58,202 (Includes men formerly classified as MIA and Mayaguez casualties). Men who have subsequently died of wounds account for the changing total.
8 nurses died — 1 was KIA..
61% of the men killed were 21 or younger..
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.
Of those killed, 17,539 were married.
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years
Enlisted: 50,274 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276 24.73 years
E1: 525 20.34 years
11B MOS(Infantry): 18,465 22.55 years
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
Highest state death rate: West Virginia – 84.1% (national average 58.9% for every 100,000 males in 1970).
Wounded: 303,704 — 153,329 hospitalized + 150,375 injured requiring no hospital care.
Severely disabled: 75,000, — 23,214: 100% disabled; 5,283 lost limbs; 1,081 sustained multiple amputations.
Amputation or crippling wounds to the lower extremities were 300% higher than in WWII and 70% higher than Korea .
Multiple amputations occurred at the rate of 18.4% compared to 5.7% in WWII.
Missing in Action: 2,338
POWs: 766 (114 died in captivity)
As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.
DRAFTEES VS.. VOLUNTEERS:
25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII).
Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam .
Reservists killed: 5,977
National Guard: 6,140 served: 101 died.
Total draftees (1965 – 73): 1,728,344.
Actually served in Vietnam : 38% Marine Corps Draft: 42,633.
Last man drafted: June 30, 1973.
RACE AND ETHNIC BACKGROUND:
88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian; 10.6% (275,000) were black; 1% belonged to other races.
86.3% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasian (includes Hispanics);
12.5% (7,241) were black; 1.2% belonged to other races.
170,000 Hispanics served in Vietnam ; 3,070 (5.2% of total) died there.
70% of enlisted men killed were of North-west European descent.
86.8% of the men who were killed as a result of hostile action were caucasian; 12.1% (5,711) were black; 1.1% belonged to other races.
14.6% (1,530) of non-combat deaths were among blacks.
34% of blacks who enlisted volunteered for the combat arms.
Overall, blacks suffered 12.5% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5% of the total population.
Religion of Dead: Protestant — 64.4%; Catholic — 28.9%; other/none — 6.7% SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS:
Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups.
Vietnam veterans’ personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent.
76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from lower middle/working class backgrounds.
Three-fourths had family incomes above the poverty level; 50% were from middle income backgrounds.
Some 23% of Vietnam vets had fathers with professional, managerial or technical occupations.
79% of the men who served in Vietnam had a high school education or better when they entered the military service. 63% of Korean War vets and only 45% of WWII vets had completed high school upon separation.
Deaths by region per 100,000 of population: South — 31%, West –29.9%; Midwest — 28.4%; Northeast — 23.5%.
DRUG USAGE & CRIME:
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group. (Source: Veterans Administration Study)
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison – only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.
WINNING & LOSING:
82% of veterans who saw heavy combat strongly believe the war was lost because of lack of political will.
Nearly 75% of the public agrees it was a failure of political will, not of arms.
HONORABLE SERVICE:
97% of Vietnam-era veterans were honorably discharged.
91% of actual Vietnam War veterans and 90% of those who saw heavy combat are proud to have served their country.
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.
87% of the public now holds Vietnam veterans in high esteem..
INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE “Been There”:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,1995 (census figures).
During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between ’95 and ’00. That’s 390 per day.
During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.
The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations.
From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers. –
Nixon Presidential Papers.
__,_._,___
not in VN but served 69-71. thanks for the info some of it was unexpected. i’m still saddened by the misuse of our best folks both then and now. glorious men serving questionable pursuits
Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations.
Sure – I was there where Rusty Calley was forced to serve a year or two confined to the Ft. Benning Bachelor Officers Quarters.
(Bob Kerry was sentenced to serve in the U.S. Senate)
That simply isn’t true
As wife, sister, cousin of men who served ‘in country’, I’ve seen those stats as they happened. Didn’t see stats on those with PTSD & how they’ve fared; or those who developed cancers & neurological diseases 20+ years after….Agent Orange exposure is an unacknowledged part of a lot of the deaths in the stats. Cover up to avoid culpability still exists, and service personnel get the short stick.
Lyn, there is mounting evidence showing that those who have been engaged in treatment programs for PTSD, like the stellar one we have here at our VA, can actually add years to their lives and exceed the actuarial tables of non-military civilians. Some of the rationale for that is obvious, they have met and overcome many layers of repression and anger. That is more than most talk show hosts do!
And all for what?
The ruling class declares war and sends the working class off to kill the working class in another place. The wrong people get killed.
Amen! I lost two childhood friends in that dreadful mess, one shot dead in the jungle, the other returning home, never to be himself again, dying just a few years ago. When they enlisted there were: cafes in Tucson wherein they couldn’t eat; swimming pools in which they couldn’t swim; days in which they couldn’t skate at the rink; seats in which they couldn’t occupy at the movies; jobs they had no chance of getting.
Hey Ernie: Let me ask you one thing: Could they now?
Don’t look now, but in some muslim countries, women are stoned to death or hanged for showing too much of their ankle or face. And in Saudi Arabia, women aren’t allowed to drive a car. And we’re talking 2010, not 1969.
Could your frinds own a house, drive a car? Or get a free education here then? Marry and get jobs, and have children? Retire and live in a pension?
My grandmother Stern’s people had to get numbers tattooed in blue on their arms before most of them were gassed by Hitler’s SS and thrown into the ovens.
Yea, life ain’t fair sometimes. Ain’t it a bitch?
Yer pal, Ferrar Bubba
You are so right, Bubba. Life isn’t fair, and never will be, so why should we care about our country’s veterans?
This is painful to talk about, but I had a cousin that I was very close to. As a child, I spent most days at my aunt’s house while both parents worked. My cousin was older than me, but still just a kid who was excited about the usual things: hot rods, music, girls. Out of a sense of patriotism, he enlisted and was sent to Vietnam. He couldn’t have found Vietnam on a map if his life depended on it and doubtless had no idea why he was going there, but he believed it was his duty. He wasn’t in Vietnam long before he suffered a head injury from mortar fire. When he came home, he spent the rest of his life either sitting in a chair speechless and without expression, or reading poetry on a street corner to no one in particular. He finally died of exposure one cold night, sleeping on the streets.
The statistics themselves, as horrible as they are, never quite cover the real truth of war.
I am very sorry to hear about your cousin. I am a Vietnam Veteran also. I suffered 4-5, Ischemic Strokes and 1 Ischemic Heart Attack. Your story about your cousin reminds me of my youth. I used to see a WWII or Korea War guy downtown marching around. We, Vietnam Veterans are all dying, some sooner than others of horrible cancers. I have had 1 Ischemic Heart attack and 4-5 Ischemic Strokes. The next time a politican talks about sending Americans around the world to war, think about your cousin. I have now been rejected for about 4 claims from the VA. Although, they know all the causes of deaths, they are ignoring them. Congress has a law HR 2254, with the senate SS 1939, and they are taking there time passing them for Blue Water Navy. They send you to war, but won’t take care of your PTSD, which your cousin had, nor any other problems. GOD BLESS YOU. WELCOME HOME! NOW HILLARY CLINTON HAS SET ASIDE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR VIETNAM, BUT NOT ONE PENNY FOR VIETNAM VETERANS.
I am sorry for your cousin. I am a Vietnam Veteran with 1 Ischemich heart Attack and 4-5 Ischemic Strokes. Currently, the VA is not admiting any claims to causes of these, and many more problems I have had. I know you won’t forget your cousin, and you should’nt. He is still alive, as long as you remember him. The next Vietnam Veteran that you see, thank him for his time in service, it will help you heal a wound, and make your cousin proud. GOD BLESS. WELCOME HOME!
The Vietnam Conflict was not popular, as you have indicated. I knew some of those who died and served, and these stats are sobering. My family always held those vets who served there in high esteem so your statement that “87% of the public now holds Vietnam veterans in high esteem” is encouraging.
So what can we do when faced with such overwhelming statistics? We can defy them. There is no variable for the power of the human spirit. The Veterans that are alive today are alive because they beat the odds of war so the duty is ours now to give them strength and support in there final and ongoing battle against PTSD. We must arm ourselves with kindness and understanding and band together to overrun this silent battlefield. I hope that all of us can believe in the power of collective good intentions because no statistic in the world stands a chance against an army of compassion and will power. Peace & Love.
Extraordinarily well said, J.R. Your choice of the phrase, “silent battlefield,” is poignant. And, “collective good intentions,” is clearly a path to health and contentment, and one would hope, longevity.
“An army of compassion and will power” is the current assignment for which we should all be, “walking point.” You’re damn right we can defy those odds. Volunteering helps! I am told by a neighbor physician that volunteering in that army of compassion can actually raise the Ig-A level in blood serum, increasing the potency of our immune system.
Therefore, I am off to the Old Pueblo Trolley for my 6-9pm shift as a conductor! Come on down to 4th Ave and defy the stats!
Thank you all for your thoughts.
I lost nine men. Three under 21 and the other six where under 25. I was 25 when this happen and I live with it every day and night. I just turned 64. I often wonder what their lifes would have been like. I now have two son in laws in the Army and are in or have been in Iraq. I have two daughter that are in the Army and one has gone to Iraq and has come home safe. But how many time will their husbands do so? They have gone servered three and four tours. WE would be out of the war business if it wasn’t for the Politicians or at least get in and out when we should have. Then and Now!!
This is terrible to contemplate and I wonder how a person ever could come to terms with such loss. And there are many others still suffering from that war and the wars that followed. No doubt there are also thousands of Vietnamese peoples who also remember daily every single loss they suffered. Why don’t we ever remember these things in the rush to war?
You know why, Lefty. The “senders” aren’t the sufferers.
Reminds me of what I thought (and still believe) is a great idea. Every country should have a designated “fighter.” When physical violence is deigned necessary to resolve a conflict, each country involved sends their fighter. It would be run tournament fashion, with play-offs, televised, of course, on Pay Per View, and would culminate in “sudden death” of the leader of the country who declared war. Cool, huh?
My heart and soul are with you “Highland.”
We conduct workshop/retreats at the Merritt Center in Payson, Az. for combat vets. Both Officers and enlisted men have attended over the past four years. There is no affiliation with the VA or a Church. The deadline for the next retreat was today. However one vet dropped out today, for a health reason. If you would like to attend, go to the website at “MerrittCenter.org” and you can view the program for veterans. It is very unique and it is totally FREE.
The next session starts next weekend; January 15-17th in Payson. Traveling with me will be a Marine Gunnery Sgt. from Patagonia, and a Marine Captain who also, like yourself, lost way to many young men in the Nam. Think about joining us. Feel free to call if you care to know more. Mike/USMC Nam 68-69 360-6933
Interesting piece that has been floating around for several years. I’ve had some difficulty verifying some of the numbers and conclusions. A few of the claims are poorly worded , leading to a bit of ambiguity.
True, Smark, the stats are a bit outdated. There’s probably a lot more dead by now.
So first off, this makes me feel incredibly lucky that you, my wonderful father, got through everything and are still alive. And I’m so proud that you are such a huge part of helping others through their own processes as you continue your own work.
What really stands out to me in these statistics is how anti-war the message is here. When we go to war, it isn’t a go-in-and-fix situation, as it seems many people believe. When our government chooses to engage in war, a decision is being made to affect millions of lives FOREVER. Not for the number of years we are at war… forever. I wonder that this isn’t the least known or least comprehended fact of war.
I only arrived at this intersection of contentment and health because of you, your brothers, and your mother. That is called Grace!
Hey Highlander: THe difference between Vietnam and now is that probably your friends were drafted into the service back then, whereas now it’s an all volunteer service.
You volunteer for whatever reasons and take your chances. Back then, you had no choice.
Me? I enlisted in the Army for 4 because I wanted to pick my job, (ASA) and where I would be stationed (Germany).
I was lucky to be in at the time of the ‘Cold War,’ and just snooped and pulled dirty tricks on the East German Huns and those Godless Ruskies, although we did have one of our captains get caught in a Soviet tank park and the guard shot him to death before turning his body back to us.
But he volunteered for the job, and nobody forced him to go against his will. It was just part of the job description.
It did finally make the papers, and we apologized to both the DDR and the Soviets. End of story.
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
Hey Lefty: ‘The Ruling class sending the working class off to war?’
Wow, that almost brought tears of nostalgia to these jaded old eyes.
I hadn’t heard that phrase since I was a pimle-faced kid of 19 attending some Socialist Workers’ Party meetings in Santa Monica, hotbed of the liberal left in the L.A. area.
Not to worry though. I quickly regained my sanity and became a useful, contributing member of society instead of a drag, like those misguided old bomb-throwing Trotskyites. <g>
And speaking of war and the personal devestation that it brings, the New York Times, today ran an article comparing the number of 2009 U.S. deaths in Iraq vs. Afghanistan. The grand total was 639 soldiers killed last year.
Granted, one battle death is too many, but to put our war deaths in perspective, would you be surprised if I told you that the total combined number of 2009 murders in only three of the cities in the U.S. with the toughest anti-gun laws far surpassed the combined 2009 battle deaths in both Iraq and Afghanistan? What?
Which brings the question: Are you and your family in more danger walking the streets of Chicago’s South side at night . . . Or walking to the Kabul Airport? You pick ‘em.
Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
Don’t believe me? Look it up. It’s all there for you to see.
I guess then all the dead Iraqis and Afghans that you failed to account for are safer than they would be if they lived in Chicago? Seems like a shocking lack of personal responsibility and very poor choices led to their deaths, rather than the often-blamed US munitions. Pretty dumb of them to live right where an explosion is going off.
Hey Lefty: I was talking about U.S. war Deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan only vs. our out of control big city murder rates. Where did the other side and collateral deaths come in?
Why don’t we stick to the point that I was making, OK?
And I submit that it was Soviet block munitions, not ours that caused the vast majority (No, not right wing, Hillary) of our KIAs.
Respectfully submitted, and still yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
“All the Kings horses and all the Kings men could not put Humpty Dumpty together again.”
No one agrees before the wars. And no one agrees after the wars. Unless you are Dick Cheney talking to himself.
Can anyone provide citations for these statistics? I am particularly interested in the numbers of phony in-country service claims. I have sought this information on the internet but cannot find an actual, citable source, although the Census Bureau appears to be it.
Don’t worry! It is way lower than proving phony welfare cases!
I served with the 94th Medical Detachment, 119th Asault Helicoper Company, in Pleiku, South Vietnam.
The V.A. is treating me for PTSD right now – I get to visit the War several times each week.
God Bless our Military and Military Veterans!
We got your back Florida Dude. You are a member of a very large platoon!
I seem to be having a difficult time remembering my Marine platoon unit in nam I was in Quang Tri,RVN in 19681969-does anyone out there know any way I can help myself: I’d like to get in touch with my buddies. I’m also getting treated for PTSD. It’s difficult to erase the things we went throughwhat we saw, many, many of us were fresh out of high school. I also developed jungle rot feetsuffered with it for many years what a sting: I continue to have cracksfungus on my feetalso lost some of my hearing. Thinkging about buddies lost to the nam war as well as those that came back to the USA, so if anyone has any info. to provide to me as to how to locate my unit I’ll be for evergreatful. SEMPRE FI
Find your closes Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter and go to a meeting. A whole new world will open for you, starting with the answer to the name of your unit. Safe sailing!
You can call me Pete and I may be able to help, I know alot of men who were at Quang Tri. It is possible for you to recall if you were 1st Marine Division? or 2nd Marine Division or 3rd? Mike/ 7th Marines 760-550-8083
I very like your site.