Defoliate 130 miles of populated land along the Rio Grande to thwart illegal crossers? Is that even moral? Sounds sickeningly familiar. We used defoliation in Vietnam to eliminate hiding places. The Vietnamese, our own Vietnam generation, and all our children are paying the price in birth defects, deaths and disabilities. Read more at Natural News.
21 thoughts on “Border Agents Plan Use of Agent Orange-like Herbicide on Rio Grande”
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Although I’m all for securing the border, this isn’t the route to take. My uncle has lived with Agent Orange exposure for years, and it’s been awful. He decided to never have children, due to his fear of what problems they could’ve had.
good info mike. i’m going to pass it along.
considering all the adverse health impacts on u.s. vets and vietnamese from agent orange, i thought we’d have learned our lesson by now.
somebody is going to make $$$ on this.
i wonder whose lobbying efforts this use of agent orange comes from?
something akin to agent orange is already in use here in az all the border from what i can tell.
here is a photo from along the hills in nogales.
note how lush mexico is, how bare the u.s. side is…
http://www.sonicanta.com/images/thumbs/dmz.jpg
i’ve posted a few similar images at http://www.sonicanta.com
that image was postage stamp!
images are larger at http://www.sonicanta.com
Scientific studies do not support the hysteria brought on by references to herbicides from Agent Orange to the current herbicide proposed by border agents along the Rio Grande. There is no commonality or consistency in cancer rates in exposed groups whether “ranch hands” in Viet Nam, citizens in Bremerhaven, Germany – 1953, Seveso, Italy – 1976 when plant explosions released dioxin into those communities. Cancer rates displayed no consistency country to country, study to study, plant to plant. (CF: fumento 2004 – Ending The Agent Orange Myth)
Fanning the flames of conspiracy and the possibility of malign forces spreading death and destruction on the public should be the stuff of al qaeda research and development. There is no moral equivalency between the Border Patrol and terrorists. Study the statistics and make your own decision.
Interesting that those who believe in global warming ignore the fact that CO2 helps plants grow. Believe the hysteria and we might be short of the very plant life we depend on for our daily serving of vegetables.
At first it sounds too incredible to be true. Then I remembered my history and it suddenly seemed not only possible, but likely.
BTW – Vet66; we all get to define the word terrorist for ourselves. The American soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq, the Taliban, the Vietnamese People during the war, the migrant trying to escape “La Migra”; they all have a different definition of “Terrorist”. Morality and moral absolutes are similarly elusive.
Nicely put, Leftfield.
Common sense says we don’t defoliate along rivers, whatever chemical we use. The had no idea the after-effects of Agent Orange after use in Vietnam. What after-effects can we expect with a new substance? What about the people who LIVE along the river?
Vet66 needs to increase his CO2 knowledge. Yes, it is necessary for plant growth, but too much of it contributes to the green house effect which is preventing radiant heat from escaping the planet, causing global overheating.
The sun will heat your closed car nicely, but in the summer, we need to be able to let the heat escape through opened windows.
WO
Comparing earth to an automobile is a false comparison. Hot air rises then cools through convection. That is why it is cooler at Mt. Lemmon than down here on the valley floor. Anthropomorphic global warming is a red herring designed to promulgate global government as stated by Al Gore himself. If global warming was a problem do you honestly believe that all the elites would continue living at the oceans edge? Further, the elite spend more in one month on their carbon footprint than the rest of us do in several years. Notice no mention of volcanic explosions impacting our atmosphere since the beginning of time? Cap and trade is an excuse to raise our taxes for a plan that will have zero effect on the environment.
The facts don’t support your conclusion. As far as defoliation is concerned, any transportation system with a right-of-way is spraying weed killer and pre-emergents every year. Why doesn’t that make the news? Expect more doomsday scenarios catering to the fearful to be foisted on the citizenry. The earth is resilient and politicians are temporary.
Vet66 – you should read Jonathan DuHamel’s blog, “Wry Heat”. He is of a similar mindset as you regarding global warming.
“If global warming was a problem do you honestly believe that all the elites would continue living at the oceans edge? ”
By saying this, are you implying that the “elite” have some inside knowledge about the future that the rest of us don’t? Do you think they are smarter as a group and that’s why they are the “elite”?
They are not smarter than most of us unless we allow them to be and that is what the elites are banking on. Unfortunately, the smart ones are ignored, ostracized, and denied employment. That is why I stopped watching the Weather Channel. For the sake of argument I will give you 385 ppm CO2 sense before the Industrial Revolution. That amounts to .0385 per cent of the current atmosphere. Carbon dioxide does not drive the climate.
What interests science most is its utter inability to predict ocean oscillations such as el nino, la nina, Pacific decadal oscillation, Atlantic Muliti-decadal Oscillation, Arctic Oscillation, Pacific-North American Teleconnection, Milankovitch forcing, ocean variations, et al. Then there is the oscillations of the sun, sunspot activity and what effects the sun has on global climate.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has tried to predict, much less understand the dynamics but has failed. In any case, the Vikings inhabited the Greenland/Iceland are hundreds of years ago because of the fair climate back then. It became uninhabitable some time later forcing them to leave or die. As I recall that was the last time Europe was glaciated and high altitude villages in the Alps were abandoned for the relatively cooler regions in the valleys.
Hollywood had it correct a couple of decades ago when they put out a movie that had us emigrating to Mexico because the Great Plains were iced over and we were going to starve. The data won’t allow you to have it both ways. I am open, as always to logical discussion and data driven theories.
Regarding duhamel, I presumed at the time it was tongue in cheek. I was not surprised when someone speaking for, or as, an elite came up with the idea to tax dairy farms and cattle ranches for livestock methane emmisions that contributed to global warming. All that tells me is that the “children” are in charge and not to be taken seriously.
Who are these “elite”? Are they defined by income level, educational level, political influence, or some other criteria?
It’s cooler at Mt. Lemmon because of the altitude.
Are you unaware, Vet66, of the difference between weed killers or pre-emergents, and HERBICIDES? H-E-R-B-I-C-I-D-E-S.
WO
Chemicals should always be used as a last resort. As a quail hunter, I know the difficulties of hunting in a thicket. Accordingly, I do not chop down all the mesquites, just alter my methods. This sounds like some desk jockey making policy, or the BP is getting alot lazier than they should be. Infrared not effective in the trees? Motion sensors are, as are trip wires with claymores…had ya goin’ didn’t I….
Vet 66. Epidemeology is a very focused branch of research. Can you site the ‘Scientific studies that you reference? Cancer is but one aspect of exposure to Dioxin. Thousands of men lost their lives with a myriad of other illnesses that were in fact directly linked to Agent Orange by the National Institutes of Health, maybe 20 years ago; eg, multiple myeloma, spina bifida, type 2 diabetes, etc. I would not use the word hysteria around those families. I would direct you to the Veterans Administration web site at VA.gov for more enlightenment on this subject. The leap to the topic of global warming lost me. Lots of posturing and positioning here that supplants policy and practicality.
You miss the point. It depends on who is doing the research, who is financing that research, what political pressure is being applied for the desired results, who is being cast as a victim, and last, but not least, who is being courted,Veterans, as the latest victim in need of governmental assistance – read vote buying. Just because the government comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t come with substantial strings attached. It wasn’t too many years ago that VA hospitals were detrimental to the health of those who worked and healed there.
As a Veteran, I am acutely aware that initially the VA denied that there was a connection between Agent Orange and increased cancer risk among “ranch hands” personnel. In any case, the use of Agent Orange was to deny cover to VC/NVA/ChiCom insurgents. There were plenty of other HazMat materials that worried me more than dioxin.
One other thing, consider that policy and practicality are synonymous with entitlement and expediency particularly when used by Washington politicians. John Kerry is the poster boy for that sort of dialogue.
winnieo; explain to me the fundmental difference between herbicides and weed killers. Except for the chemical makeup of each they accomplish the same goal. Ortho still makes weedkillers which sounds much better than herbicide, does it not? ROUNDUP is still around by Scotts if I am not mistaken. The latest fad is to certify crops as organic which presumably means the consumer is charged more for a product free of above ground and herbicide/weedkillers below ground.
I prefer to wash the trace amounts of fertilizer/herbicide/pesticide off my produce before cooking and/or eating it. The choice is yours. I spent many a summer working on my uncle’s dairy farm drinking unpasteurized milk from the tank. Your fears are overblown.
Before we rake our farming and cattle industry over the coals I suggest that more cancers are caused by obesity, drinking alcohol, super-sized and Big Gulp drinks from 7/11, too much sugar consumption, fat intake, smoking, and lack of exercise. Let’s keep things in perspective, shall we? I find it precious that people are being coerced into forsaking high fructose corn syrup for cane/beet sugar. Substituting cane sugar for HFCS in a 64oz big gulp will not extend your life. Fascinating that government is using the same arguments to get us back on cane sugar as they used to get us off it and onto HFCS in years past.
So Vet66 your syllogisms sort of fall off near the end. The comments about research are spot on, but then you move on to talk radio like dialogue to impart political zingers. Are you suggesting that the combat veteran who has an illness directly linked to Agent Orange is simply looking for an entitlement? That is a bit mean spirited. As a Service Officer who assists many veterans with the Claim process, I have yet to see one veteran who is in the entitlement racket. If they are, they are weeded out immediately.
Did you know, that 7 years ago the DOD acknowledged in a Memo,that we dropped three times more Dioxin in Operation Ranch Hand than was reported?
Are you a combat veteran?
No, Vet66, they do not accomplish the same goal. The herbicide in question for the Rio Grande is a defoliant. That means it kills EVERYTHING. Weed killers are generally used for specific plants, and even ROUNDUP warns of its hazard to both plant and animal life.
Agent Orange is a defoliant, and this new product Imazapyr is a defoliant – but I’m sure it’s just as safe to use as Agent Orange was in Vietnam.
I’m glad you feel safe washing your fruits and vegetables. I am sure any chemicals used are only on the outside. Surely that stuff doesn’t get INSIDE the plants.
As for organic farming, it is proving to be less expensive than the chemical route. In Tucson, imported organic costs more because of transportation costs. In northern California, organic costs less – lower transport costs.
As you said, “Just because the government” [the Border Patrol in this case] “comes up with something that appeals to you personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t come with substantial strings attached.”
Winnieo;
Since there is no vegetation along the banks of the river that provides any useful purpose other than concealment for drug runners and illegals, your arguments are specious. Where I come from, a bank without vegetation is called a beach. If the defoliant saves one of our Border Patrol officers from getting injured or killed, the moral imperative of the defoliant/herbicide is attained.
California and Massachusetts are discovering the predictable result of encouraging so-called sanctuary cities to welcome illegals into the social programs. On the one hand you have weeds along the river. On the other hand you have bankrupt cities that can’t afford to take care of their legal citizens much less the illegals.
By the way, “Orange” was sprayed about three gallons per acre which is the equivalent of .009 of an ounce per square foot. Sprayed from C-130’s less than 6% ever reached the ground. As I recall, after spraying, ground troops typically didn’t enter the sprayed area for another month. Dioxin degrades in sunlight after 48 to 72 hours.
Quibbling about which weeds are good and which weeds are bad distracts from the point of the project which is to deny concealment to those entering the country illegally. What is your real reason/motive to question the use of chemicals to clear undergrowth and weeds where growth is undesirable for any reason?
Habitat for both humans and animals.
Hello! Your post (Border Agents Plan Use of Agent Orange-like Herbicide on Rio Grande – Veteran Veritas) does so well that I would like to translate it into French, publish on my french blog and link to you. You have something against it? Regards